i am running the aalto au in max 6, osx lion.
what message do i need to send [vst~ aaltocomponent] to start up and sync the aaltos host sequencer?
also... does it not accept midi in?
I would try the audiounit~ object with the AU version instead-- it seems to be more stable in Max than the vst.
MIDI is certainly possible-- I'd start from the vst~ or audiounit~ help patch and try to change as little as possible.
I'm not sure if host sync is possible. I haven't been able to spend too much time working with Max/MSP, so hopefully someone else can offer advice here.
So, I took the time to install Max 6 today and here's the state of things:
the vst~ object runs VST and AU plugins, so forget what I said about audiounit~.
the Aalto VST does not hear MIDI events in MSP. The AU version does.
Neither AU nor VST seems to hear the MSP clock for host sync.
So, the AU version should work well overall except for host sync. I'll try to work with the Cycling elves to resolve these issues.
my experience lead to similar findings, except i found the VST to always crash Max 6, whereas the AU is stable. (i am referring to loading the .component and .vst files, not the vst~ object in Max 6)
host sync is not working. internal seq is.
thanks for the report and help. let me know what you learn.
for any curious about the experiments -- i have sent the aalto .component all kinds of messages and transport information in max 6, but have been unable to successfully run aalto sequencer set to host sync.
has anyone experienced success running aalto's host sync (engaged) in versions of max prior to 6?
i will keep experimenting and report back. aalto and max 6 will be quite the duo.
what kind of formatting is needed to send aalto messages in max msp?
ok at least with vst~ it is pretty easy to adress aalto in max
you can use the param number or param names.
get the param names by sending [params] message to [vst~] and printing/reading the max window
then use a combination of this information [$1) and [prepend "param name here"] sent right to [vst~] this will let you directly access aalto
it should be pretty easy to make a step pulse on/off and step sequencer randomizer, yay.
edit: [bucket 16] produces some interesting effects on the sequencer values when connected over all 16
edit2: here is an early version of what i was talking about next for the seq steps randomizer
still exploring this wonderful combination
but i have a question about what the params seq_wave and seq_local do as far as i can see they do nothing to the gui
once things are at a more useable stage i would be more than happy to post the patch
"seq_wave parameter probably should not show up in automation. It's just for the three buttons in the sequencer that set a preset "wave" seqeuence. Since the sliders themselves are automated, this doesn't need to be automated at all and should go away."
(from my correspondence with Randy)
seq_local switches whether sequencer corresponds to its own rate or to BPM of a DAW. There is a switch in the UI so I guess you should notice when it is changed.
I tried running the Aalto demo in the max5, and had it crash every single time. I used the VST object and tried loading the VST version of Aalto.
From what you guys are saying loading the component (AU) into VST object in max is stable?
Anyone tried running it in Max 5?
I wish running plugins in max was a bit easier. The implementation (at least in version 5) is rather minimal. Inability to easily load presets is just weird.
max 5 plus vst~ i believe needs to be loaded with the component version
i still use max 5 for my aalto/max/touchosc thing even though i have max 6
at some point i will have to find out why it crashes every time it is opened in 6
mine has a some extra stuff and is by no means done
but if you don't mind wading through some mucky muck i could post it
and by some i mean it is a pasta fasole
my two favorite things i added with max are single slider controls of the seq steps and values. there is also a little chaos engine lorded by 4 friends who sit in a very isolated back room and count and count and count.
it was originally made to be used in presentation mode then i recently started adding touchosc control over the whole thing and after a while (some kind of addressable implementation of the patch cabling system) i will end up making a physical (albeit controller) version of aalto to play alongside the soundplane
with touchosc i used encoders plus faders/rotaries in order to allow for very fine tuning (LFO freq, seq rate, pitch, ratio, delay freq) of a couple parameters.
i check the forums her pretty regularly so let me know if i should tidy slightly and make more obvious how to get the thing up and running
if there is interest would there also be interest for posting the touchosc template as well? it is really cluttered right now but everything is right there on one page (on an ipad) eventually i would like some interaction between touch osc the physcial arduino/microprocessor powered controller and max/msp
maybe even a little video demo...
I would definitely love to see what you cooked up!
If anything, it's always interesting to see how people deal with similar tasks.
Totally understand that a patch made forone's own use isn't always as polished as could be... I know one aren't :-)
So, please do share!
On a related note: I did try loading Aalto component/AU into the VST object , which did not crash. So, small victory there.
Looking toward to your patch(es)!
Hi Randy, did the Cycling people ever say anything about host sync?
Thanks for reminding me, and I'm sorry I haven't had time to look into it more.
Mack Fisher, who pops up on these forums sometimes, is looking into Max usability issues with me in a sort of intern capacity. I will see if he can look into this sooner than I would get to it. If an issue comes up and can be well-defined, I can probably be quick to turn around a fix to Aalto.
Little late to the party guys! Been working on this, are you trying to host sync to the Max's Global Transport or an outside program like Ableton or something. Depending on what your trying to accomplish, you might be able to get to where you want another way?
Hi Mack, I think people throughout the thread are just referring to Global Transport sync - that was my question anyway.
global transport is pretty limited in terms of sending that information outside of synchronizing max objects using its time value format. In other words there is no prepend/patch to send that sync information into a plugin/vst like there is midi, basically just the arguments in max objects that support global transport.
as far as crashes, Ive never had a crash with the AU Aalto (any version), in MAX6. But have trouble taking parameters over with the AU version, like not having a full range on the timbre knob. I can take over pretty much all parameters properly via the VST version, but have a had a few glitches with OSC taking over the plugin, which usually goes away when you start DSP inside Max. I have only used the VST~ object, never the Plugin~.
Hey Mack, thanks for talking about this!
One thing I've found, with regards to direct parameter control of the Aalto .au in the vst~ object, is that for some reason you need to use the number of the parameter, rather than the parameter name. So e.g. instead of sending a message "osc_pitch $1" it needs to be "87 $1" - this will give you the full range of control, and allow negative floats etc. This is in Max 6.13 on Snow Leopard btw.
Pretty strange; I don't know if this is the case for all plugins, since Aalto is pretty much the only plug I use :). I will try to investigate some other plugs.
Re: Global Transport, I totally hear ya. Not to mention that IMO Max is kind of an insane/inefficient environment in which to run a tempo-synced plugin :). I do think it (global transport/aalto) would be cool to try out as a process though. I would say on an importance scale for me of 1-10, it's like a "2". But it would be cool!
Re: the Aalto VST: I've never had it just straight up crash, but it doesn't load properly for me in Max 6.13 (UI is all jumbled up among other things), whereas the AU is all good.
I agree, when I use global transport in Max, im left with this "spinning plates" feeling, ive even had it drift! As far the parameter naming, Ive been able to take over all parameters by name not number via the VST~ object, except for the modulation oscillator offset. Which is already known. Ive only had problems taking over values properly with the AU version, but I havent tried just the number handles yet.
It would be cool if people posted some Maxified Aalto stuff, first night I took everything over was pretty awesome. Modulating the glide, polyphony etc... One thing Im wondering if everyone experiences, sometimes when I modulate the step sequencers on/off the gate/PW sequencer goes blank but still kicks out the right values indicated by the faux blue light sensor @ the PW delay line. Anyone else?
here is my little foray into aalto inside of max/msp
Pardon the necro bump but I can't help but ask if anyone has made any progress here in the meantime and sorry if there's an answer somewhere obvious I'm overlooking!
Randy is there any reason there's no way to trigger sequencer stepping via messages (e.g., seq_step?) Or maybe there is and I'm missing it?
Cheers and thanks in advance!
Any progress on just Aalto in max in general, or something in particular? I have done a bunch of fixes to keep up with Max since 2013.
Sequencer stepping by messages is not something I have ever thought of doing. Would you turn the clock rate to 0 and then use seq_step messages to change the location?
I'm curious about what the intention was here too, but from my perspective, it seems straightforward if you're within Max anyway to either jump to a specific step or to step through the sequencer in order.
As suggested by Randy the Sequencer Rate is 0 so will only advance on an event from Max, either from a specific step int ( 1 to 16 in attached patch ..refer to img) or through a bang or any other route you want to take to position it
However .. if you do this you'll see that there is a bug whereby the sequencer will play step N-1 (or it will play step 16 when 1 is selected) .. this is a longstanding issue i've raised a few times now .. the blue 'gate values will be aligned correct, but the corresponding orange seq step will be off (although Randy hinted it may have been bottomed out in the upcoming release with the new license arrangement ) (PS same in Kaivo)
Sorry for the confusion!
I meant progress on the general "syncing aalto w/ max" issue which to be clear, I take to not fall on your side of the fence at all @randy. @avantronica is spot on as to what I'm looking to do and it didn't occur to me to use a counter and call the steps in sequence. Great idea!
In that case, I'd be interested too an a fix to the N-1 playback issue too.
Cheers and thanks for the quick responses!
Just confirmed that
seq_offset does the trick for me.
Thanks again @avantronica!
Following up, I'm wondering if there's a similar trick to trigger the envs via external messages? (Is MIDI all I've got here? And in that case, using key events?)
EDIT: on second thought this is kind of an odd request. If I just want to trigger envelopes externally in order to modulate internal parameters, I may as well just have my modulators be external and just drive parameters directly via messages.
Sorry for continuing to muddy the waters!
I should add, the sequencer UI mismatch for the sliders is often intermittent, I previously sent in a procedure to show how or ensure the slider was aligned with the sequencer indicator with a hope this would illuminate why it was not consistent .. so that may explain why it works as you'd imagine (as it has, just now, for me) .. plus, the patch has an arbitrary error in that it is ordered wrong (in right to left terms) for the initial setting of the rate etc (nothing major, just flagging the flaw)
glad the offset workaround is offering a way forward
it would be good if there was a key advance mode for the sequencer, a common technique on some synths
Oh man - so much good info in this thread. Happy to know I'm not on this adventure all by myself.
@ppqq - I'm with you though w/r/t envelopes. In an ideal world, I'd love to have the end of an envelope spit out a pulse/gate/bang, which could then trigger a random or similar.
It's looking more and more like I'll have to do all my modulation outside of Aalto, and use the VST~ just as a sound source, which seems totally fine, but I seem to be having some break up or zipper noise, since I can only send my Max envelopes into Aalto at signal rate. Has anyone else been having this issue?
Is possible to change or/and display the alto's programs form Max/msp?
I use Vst~object.
It is definitely possible. There's a program message, or some kind of message, to the vst~ object that should change the program and there should be a way to get a list of programs as well. I don't have Max/MSP on this computer so it's hard for me to look it up right now.