No, for real. Enjoy. Feel free to post your getting started questions here, or as always email us at support@madronalabs.com. And thanks in advance for your patience while we handle a larger than usual volume of support emails.
Thanks to Randy for responding to my earlier post over on the Sumu preview page. I'm also encountering the "opening too large" problem (on Windows 11), and have no ability to access the bottom right corner of the relevant window -- it remains off screen.
That's really a minor point, though, and I'm sure that it will swiftly be fixed in an update.
A much bigger worry has to do with CPU hit, and here I just want to echo what some others have already noted. I have been looking forward to working with this synth for a very long time, and the videos from early beta testers posted back in December got me even more intrigued. This is clearly an amazing piece of software, and I know that Randy has put a lot of love into it. But the people involved in those beta tests must be running systems whose capabilities leave mine in the dust, because opening Sumu inside Ableton Live 12 -- which I could do (no crashes, thankfully) immediately brought my CPU to its knees. I've got only 16GB RAM installed, so it's not like I expected perfectly smooth sailing (though it is a multicore system, but that doesn't seem to matter much). But I had at least hoped that I would be able to tinker a bit. Nope. That's not happening. The initialize patch hovers around 100% before any connections are made. Flipping through the presets spikes my CPU numbers to places I've never seen before (300%+), and while reducing the number of voices helps a bit, it helps only a bit -- it's not enough to actually make the synth usable given my current configuration.
I would really like to take advantage of the early access pricing, but I can't buy a synth that I am unable to get up and running. Maybe down the road, after future optimizations, I'll be able to take advantage of one of your intermittent sales (which are appreciated).
I raise this point not to complain -- Randy, I know you've got enough on your plate without having to deal with people whining, and I want you to know how much we all appreciate your work on this -- but just to bring back to your attention something that is too easily lost: I suspect that the specs on Madrona Labs' testing systems don't reflect the specs under which a lot of us are operating (16GBs of RAM, maybe 32GBs at the outside), and I really wish more had been done to make the amazingness of this synth available at a lower CPU hit.
I realize that this may be asking for the impossible, as one of the things that makes this so amazing has to do with the computational load it's made to bear. But as paul_vervoort noted above, having to buy a new computer to run this is a bridge too far -- and I'm bummed at not having the horsepower to participate in this particular sonic adventure.
The tl;dr: CHECK THE PERFORMANCE OF SUMU ON YOUR SYSTEM. This is far and away the most demanding software synth I've ever run across. (It might also be the most impressive, but -- alas -- I can't tell. Maybe someday!)
Will Vutu ever be integrated into Sumu's UI?
I've got no plans to do that - one reason is design and one is legal (Loris being GPL software). Practically speaking I'd have to re-implement Loris, which is not happening any time soon.
[edit] Oh and thank you for looking into the demo noise.
Not a problem, I rely on your feedback to find the right balance!
truly a work of art. Magnificent. Thank you very much.
FYI, I think I have introduced a bug affecting performance on MacOS / Intel. In a previous beta, it was running fine on my 2015 Retina MBP and that's a machine I am targeting. But on reading the reports of unusable performance I tried the latest beta and it's behaving much as people describe: unusable. I'll look into this ASAP.
I want to echo concerns of performance.
Windows 10, ableton 12, 16GB RAM, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6-Core Processor
A single sumu instance in a blank project on default patch brings CPU meter to 46 percent. About 70-80% on most patches. Some patches spike the CPU so high they become choppy. I know my PC could use a bit more RAM but the CPU is no slouch, this performance hit seems a bit much.
A single sumu instance in a blank project on default patch brings CPU meter to 46 percent.
That sounds about like what I'd expect.
CPU is totally dependent on the number of voices active, which is set in the input module. If a patch uses too much CPU you can turn down the number of voices. A couple of the patches are set at 16 voices and no computer I have can run them now.
It's prerelease software and optimizing has not been a focus at all. If it is interesting to you but not usable for you now I hope you'll keep an eye out for future releases.
If it is interesting to you
I'm on board, it's usable now for sound design and resampling. I can use it as-is, I hope for better performance later. It's an exciting approach to sound generation and synthesis. *
Hi Randy -
Loving what I'm hearing with Sumu so far, but as reported earlier in the thread, Sumu isn't adding the folder I've assigned for my own Vutu-generated partials when clicking the three dots in the Partials section and importing. Tried restarting Sumu and Live, moving the folder to a different location (into the existing top-level Partials folder), but no joy. Even moving the individual .utu file into one of the existing default Partials folders doesn't seem to pick up the change in the folder and make the new file visible.
Thanks for the awesome synth though - loving some of the results I'm getting with the included partial maps! Can't wait to be able to add my own!
M1 MacBook Pro // Mac OS Sonoma 14.5 // Ableton Live 12
Sumu immediate crash, same as reported by tlainhart - except in Nuendo 13, Reaper and a VST host. Looks like maybe it wants to use the display card and can't find what it needed.
FYI, I think I have introduced a bug affecting performance on MacOS / Intel. In a previous beta, it was running fine on my 2015 Retina MBP and that's a machine I am targeting. But on reading the reports of unusable performance I tried the latest beta and it's behaving much as people describe: unusable. I'll look into this ASAP.
That is a relief! Good luck!
"It's prerelease software and optimizing has not been a focus at all. If it is interesting to you but not usable for you now I hope you'll keep an eye out for future releases."
good to know, the max i can get is 8 voices, that is quite enough, but spikes sometimes ruin it.
so if the optimisation, i mentioned it somewhere else, is last (which is normal), i feel more confident.
and it usuable, with 8 and certainly with 6 voices. (and i don't need always that many voices....)
i hope that MPE will not add to much overhead. MPE is my standard way of playing a MPE capable soft synth...
Will visual indicators be added along the way, similar to how Aalto displays visual animated feedback where a connection is made?
Edit:
I don't want to pollute the forum so I'm pasting it here.. Sumu sounds insane! :-)
Sumu:User/Hardcore Pad2.mlpreset:1204 bytes
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
Wow, the formatting on the patch text is crazy, talk about out of the box!
Yes I want to add visual indicators but with 64 channels per patch it's a whole new design problem, and one left for later.
Sumu isn't adding the folder I've assigned for my own Vutu-generated partials when clicking the three dots in the Partials section and importing.
When you select the folder containing your .utu files, they are imported into compressed .sumu files in the Sumu Partials folder. The directory and any directores below it that you select, will be searched and a similar tree of directories made in the Sumu Partials folder. It's like "sync" for all the .utu files.
I'll try to improve on the UI a bit and make a demo movie or something for the next release.
Thanks for the reply Randy - the issue is, though, that no folder or files appear in the browserin the Partials folder after importing. I tried several times with the folder I was importing in a few different locations in case it was a permissions issue, but it just doesn't appear at all. I'll try again later.
EDIT: Forgot to mention I'm using the AU version
Thank you for creating Sumu. Love how it sounds.
Hello all,
I am running Sumu on a 2024 Macbook M3 Pro, 18GB Memory on OS 14.1
One instance of Sumu tops my CPU out at 20%, which is not insignificant for one plug-in, but I consider this more of a teething issue than anything else. I am sure this will be addressed over time.
I think like everyone, I am experiencing this annoying GUI bug, but I am able to live with it as I have two screens; though, I will note that this bug does make Sumu too large to use on my Retina Display (which sucks, because the UI is beautiful).
Would it be possible to update the patch launcher/index, so that it does not immediately change a patch upon first click? I've lost quite a few nice patches to this, as I am so used to Aalto. I miss this functionality.
I also very much miss the indicators/animations on the patch dials that allow one to see just how much the dial is affecting the modulation. This is extremely minor, but it would be super cool to see this brought back. I find visual-feedback to be most helpful for the kind of work I do.
I'll have more feedback for later, but I these things stood out to me in my first session.
Randy / Madrona Team: thank you for making such amazing products. Even with these issues, I am head over heels in love with Sumu. I am very much looking forward to see how it evolves over time. :)
Something which I didn't mention with regards to the failing import of a Partials folder, is that since I tried to import the Vutu folder, when I load a new instance of Sumu, the default patch shows a message saying "partials file not found" instead of loading the A440 tone. I can manually choose the A440 tone, but it doesn't load up with the plugin in its initial state anymore (and this happens even if I manually choose the A440 tone and resave the patch over the Default preset). I'm 99% sure this didn't happen before I tried to import a new folder into the Partials section. I've tried deleting Sumu and reinstalling etc, but the same thing keeps happening.
The bundle price needs to be attractive, at the moment it seems to ignore my Aalto license and would sell me Aaltoverb for around 100 $... I don't really need Aaltoverb, I might think about getting it, but not for three times the price if I would buy it separate...
Sumu on my Mac is seriously buggy:
It's causing loud bangs/audio interface crashes, often failing to find partials and/or select presets, and invariably pushing the CPU into overload. Unusable, in other words.
Aalto and Kaivo work fine.
Mac Pro 2019.
Processor 2.5GHz 28-core Intel Xeon W
Memory 96 GB 2933 MHz DDR4
Graphics Radeon RX 580 8GB
OS Monterey 12,4
Logic pro X 10.7.9
UAD Apollo Quad and Apollo 16 interfaces.
Sumu on my Mac is seriously buggy
Sorry to hear. We'll be hard at work on these issues.
Anyone with this problem of high CPU use or crashes PLEASE set the number of voices to 1 in the input module before writing in and let us know how that affects things. This information is a big help. At 8 voices or more, CPU use is known to be very high now.
Would it be possible to update the patch launcher/index, so that it does not immediately change a patch upon first click? I've lost quite a few nice patches to this, as I am so used to Aalto. I miss this functionality.
Sorry to hear— I feel I failed you here. I have lost some patches myself this way. I looked at what other plugins do, and some other biggies will also lose your work in progress if you switch to a different patch. So I figured it was OK, if not optimal.
What I added at that point was the small triangle by the right of the patch menu. This will appear if you have changes since saving the patch. If you get used to looking at it, it can stop you from clicking and switching the patch.
What I would like to add in the future is a full undo that can restore the plugin to any previous state, even after switching patches. this would have prevented your issues but is a big feature I did not have time for before Early Access.
The bundle price needs to be attractive
Here is the info we are about to add to the web site. I hope this clarifies things. Is it possible, one or more of your licenses is NFR (not for resale?) this would occur if gifted, transferred from another customer, or bought using .edu discount.
Here's how discounts for existing license holders are calculated:
- Each major product you own - Aalto, Kaivo, Virta, or Sumu - adds a 20% discount to the bundle price
- Aaltoverb does not apply towards the discount
- Licenses that were gifted, transfered, or purchased using an educational discount do not count towards the discount
Please also note that due to Sumu's discounted price during the early access period, if you already own all of our other products (thank you!), then the cheapest way for you to get Sumu is to buy it directly while it's still in early access. Once Sumu 1.0 is released and selling at full price, a discount will be available by purchasing through the bundle.
I had the same issue with importing my own partials that morpion mentioned, but I was able to get around it by creating a new folder in the "import folder..." command and dragging my custom files into there. That folder now shows up in the partials menu.
Congratulations on a wonderful new product in Sumu!
The presets sound great, and there's obviously a lot under the hood. I look forward to downloading Sumu and trying it out.
What weirded me out, I admit, was how many presets in the demo video used a 4-note phrase that is at the core of my cult story-song classic, "Tattooed Rose" (Brother Greg), available at most streaming sites. Is this a coincidence?
What weirded me out, I admit, was how many presets in the demo video used a 4-note phrase that is at the core of my cult story-song classic, "Tattooed Rose" (Brother Greg), available at most streaming sites. Is this a coincidence?
Yes, it's a coincidence, and if your question is a sly way to promote your music, much respect for your hustle.
Thanks for your response, Randy.
My question was just a frank and open question. I've never heard the use of that particular phrase, with that speed of delivery, used so persistently anywhere else. I'm a little insulted that you think I'm just marketing myself here. But OK. I'll stop right there.
No offense intended, brother-greg.
Windows 11 Pro, 10.0.22631 Build 22631, Intel i7-11700, 32GB RAM, Ableton 12.02, build 2024-04-09_491ed88, Presonus ioStation 24c
Pros: Love the interface, clarity is paramount. Documentation is a mite thin, but the style and quality are very, very good, clever and sophisticated (this is too often overlooked). The UX is something I will enjoy fiddling with for a long time. I bought it after seeing the Richard Devine post on Insta, which is something I'm almost always able to refrain from doing.
Starts clipping at 4 voices, in a single instance, even on relatively low usage patches. I didn't think I'd see something greedier than the NI granular VSTs like Straylight, but kudos ;). One voice clocks in at about 21% CPU, one voice sounds . . . like many other VSTs I have, even with the baked-in Ableton engines like Collision, I can reproduce something close to your output. Mind you, it's not as fun to use.
I sincerely hope you can work out some of the kinks, and it now occurs to me that I could have chosen one of your more mature products to start with. But I haven't bought a new VST in donkeys, and everything but the performance is extraordinary satisfying, so thanks for now . . .
Sorry to hear. We'll be hard at work on these issues.
Anyone with this problem of high CPU use or crashes PLEASE set the number of voices to 1 in the input module before writing in and let us know how that affects things.
This information is a big help.
At 8 voices or more, CPU use is known to be very high now.
Using up to two voices is working perfectly, thank you!