ForumsSoftware ← Kaivo: presets not visible as sub-menu when selecting plugin in Numerology 4 or Live 9


Kaivo 1.0

OSX 10.9.2

Numerology 4 Build 131

Live 9.1.1

Just noticed that for some reason, presets don't appear when selecting Kaivo through the plugin browser in either Numerology 4, or Live 9. For comparison, presets in Aalto do.

Patch/sample pack is installed, and all presets are visible from within Kaivo.

Numerology screenshot

Side note: in Live

  • Aalto: shows all presets, but without the menu tree display in Numerology (that smells very host-specific)
  • Kaivo: doesn't show presets (presumably same issue as with Numerology)

Anyway, minor issue ;) Let me know if I can provide any further info!

Thanks Randy, and congrats for getting Kaivo out :)


Never mind, found the preset installer.

Hi Bodhi,

This is because I'm no longer making .aupreset files for the Audio Unit version. It uses the same .mlpreset files as the VST version now. I know this is kind of sad because a few menus in Mac apps such as this won't be filled in. But the costs of doing this outweighed the benefits, in my opinion, because I needed to write a preset converter and keep it updated, and the whole issue with two kinds of presets was confusing to many.

Hey Randy,

No problem; just thought I'd mention it as it looked a little odd seen alongside Aalto.

Your explanation makes perfect sense :)



Okay, I've been trying to get Kaivo to do anything at all on my Mac. Several months ago I just gave up. Today I approached it again and persisted for an hour plus, and talked to a friend. It seems Logic Express will not do anything with VST presets and apparently you are saying there are no aupreset files anymore. Logic Express is what I own. I bought it for another purpose entirely and have basically never used it. It is a really heavy piece of junk but that may be true of DAWs in general, which I know almost nothing about and have not found approachable/usable.

I wanted something lighter-weight anyway. All I really want is a softsynth (e.g. an application), not a monster I am required to tame in order to do the simplest thing.

I had heard Apple provided a free plugin platform, can't remember the name, but I was never able to make the slightest head or tail of how to use it, not the vaguest idea, whereas I was at least able to get Logic Express to work with Aalto after a couple hours of banging my head.

There is also Max which I own but have always hated as a development environment, and it is extremely heavyweight also, maybe even worse than Logic? Anyway if that is my only choice I will use it but I think Max has crashed my Mac sometimes just loading the help files.

I'd appreciate a suggestion for a simple softsynth platform that will let me use Kaivo as a standalone synth with Soundplane which is all I have ever needed. Apparently now this needs to be a VST platform. But I don't need mixing, don't need tracks, ideally don't need "projects", just basic channel mapping. Ideally channel mapping would be global and I'd be able to save settings as documents in some non-arcane fashion.

I wonder how many people will just not find the Soundplane approachable because they are not seasoned users of DAWs. It seems to me you are kicking some people out. That is certainly how it makes me feel initially. Even though I am technical my spare time to slog through technology that I have no other use for is something I have to limit.

(please bare in mind I'm not connected in any way to madrona labs, just here to help!)

whoa, sounds like you've had a tough time.

ok, so you say you want to run the VST version (due to presets)

you could use any lightweight 'VST host', it doesnt have to be a daw , if you search on google you will find a number of free VST hosts.
e.g. , but there are lots available.

commercial offerings:
Max - as you say Max is good if you want to do more, and in fairness only takes 3 objects to create a full solution,
Bidule - Bidule is very popular, and lightweight

if you use OSC, then just remember a number of the presets are setup for midi, and so wont make a sound under OSC because they have xVel set on the envelope, untick this and it will start working. better still disconnect the enveloper and connect Z to the 'level'

good luck

Hi Kurt,

Sorry this is frustrating you. I hope I can help.

First of all let me clear up the aupreset issue. Logic Express (or any DAW) will be able to read Aalto / Kaivo presets in the new format just fine! Otherwise it wouldn't be much good to me and the many users of my AU. Both the AU and VST will use mlpreset files going forward.

In general, it looks like your biggest complaint is that there has to be a DAW in the chain. I guess the main thing that would help you is a standalone version of Kaivo. You're not alone in wanting this so I'll plan to make standalone versions available for v.2. Either that or my own dead simple VST host.

Meanwhile, I think the channel mapping you want can happen in the Soundplane client, so you just need a simple VST host.

I use Apple's free AU Lab all the time for testing. I assume this is what you have. Just start it, select "Add Audio Unit Instrument" and start playing. The Soundplane will talk to the AU over OSC, so there will be no MIDI setup required. This ought to be easy.

There is also Apple's GarageBand which probably came with your Mac. Just type "Audio Units" into GarageBand help and it shows you how to start an AU synth. I just tried it out with Kaivo and it worked fine.

Thanks to both of you for such a very quick response. First let me clarify the following for Randy. Yes I have always had a complaint about not having a standalone synth app. It was especially bad for me initially when the doc merely said it assumes I am familiar with how to use my favorite DAW, something to that effect--and no, I was not.

However, my current problem is that Logic Express does not see the Kaivo files at all. I have Logic Express 8.0. Trying to point its file browser to the Kaivo files, they are dimmed in the list. It has no problems with the Aalto (aupreset) files. So in Logic Express I can use Aalto but not Kaivo, or that is how it appears. (Maybe I need to upgrade Logic, but that is something I have no intention of spending any money on.)

Yes, I think AU Lab is the one I tried and could make no sense of at all. I will look at it again based on what you've said above, and report back later.

Thanks again.

The main way to load a preset is through the big menu at the top of the plugin. If Kaivo (either AU or VST) is installed using the .dmg installer, all the presets should be in place, and viewable through this menu.