simon's Recent Posts

Great. Looks good so far, but just some minutes in.

You may want to announce the release in the news as well. Not everyone affected will monitor this thread I guess.

Will the fix be available, soon?

Great. When you're ready with a Windows build, I'll be happy to test it.

Hi Randy,
did you make any progress?

This patch starts to go bad visibly after about 26 Minutes.

The Ableton file

Wave used

{
"demo": 0,
"licensor": "",
"key_voices": 1,
"key_mod": 1,
"key_bend": 7,
"key_unison": 0,
"key_glide": 0.010000,
"seq_local": 1,
"seq_host": 0,
"seq_loop": 1,
"seq_trig": 0,
"seq_rate": 0.250000,
"seq_ratio": 1,
"seq_rate_p": 0,
"seq_steps": 16,
"seq_steps_p": 0,
"seq_offset": 0,
"seq_offset_p": 0,
"seq_range": 12,
"seq_quantize": 0,
"seq_glide": 0,
"seq_pw": 50,
"seq_value_delay": 0,
"seq_pulse_delay": 0,
"seq_value0": 0,
"seq_value1": 0,
"seq_value2": 0,
"seq_value3": 0,
"seq_value4": 0,
"seq_value5": 0,
"seq_value6": 0,
"seq_value7": 0,
"seq_value8": 0,
"seq_value9": 0,
"seq_value10": 0,
"seq_value11": 0,
"seq_value12": 0,
"seq_value13": 0,
"seq_value14": 0,
"seq_value15": 0,
"seq_pulse0": 0,
"seq_pulse1": 0,
"seq_pulse2": 0,
"seq_pulse3": 0,
"seq_pulse4": 0,
"seq_pulse5": 0,
"seq_pulse6": 0,
"seq_pulse7": 0,
"seq_pulse8": 0,
"seq_pulse9": 0,
"seq_pulse10": 0,
"seq_pulse11": 0,
"seq_pulse12": 0,
"seq_pulse13": 0,
"seq_pulse14": 0,
"seq_pulse15": 0,
"lfo_offset": 0,
"lfo_offset_x": 0,
"lfo_offset_y": 0,
"lfo_rate": 1,
"lfo_level": 1,
"lfo_quantize": 0,
"lfo_offset_p": 0,
"lfo_rate_p": 1,
"lfo_level_p": 0,
"lfo_function": "circle",
"noise_peaks": 1,
"noise_width": 0,
"noise_falloff": 0.500000,
"noise_offset": 0,
"noise_rate": 1,
"noise_level": 0,
"noise_auto": 0,
"noise_filter": 0,
"noise_offset_p": 0,
"noise_rate_p": 0,
"noise_level_p": 0,
"env1_attack": 0.001000,
"env1_decay": 1,
"env1_sustain": 1,
"env1_release": 0.500000,
"env1_level": 1,
"env1_xvel": 1,
"env1_attack_p": 0,
"env1_decay_p": 0,
"env1_release_p": 0,
"env2_repeat": 1,
"env2_delay": 0,
"env2_attack": 0.001000,
"env2_sustain": 0,
"env2_release": 0.010000,
"env2_xvel": 0,
"env2_xenv1": 1,
"env2_delay_p": 0,
"env2_attack_p": 0,
"env2_repeat_p": 1,
"env2_release_p": 0,
"gran_position_x": 0.980000,
"gran_position_y": 0,
"gran_rate_noise": 0,
"gran_rate": 1,
"gran_density": 1,
"gran_pitch": -1,
"gran_pitch_env": 0,
"gran_pan": 0,
"gran_follow": 0,
"gran_smooth": 0,
"gran_wrap": 1,
"gran_position_x_p": 0,
"gran_position_y_p": 0,
"gran_rate_p": 1,
"gran_density_p": 1,
"gran_pitch_p": 1,
"gran_pitch_lin_p": 0,
"gran_pitch_env_p": 0,
"gran_pan_p": 0,
"gate_level": 0.110000,
"gate_mode": 0,
"gate_decay": 1,
"gate_leak": 0,
"gate_level_p": 0.500000,
"res_position": 0.500000,
"res_brightness": 0.500000,
"res_pitch": 440,
"res_nonlin": 0,
"res_sustain": 0.500000,
"res_pan": 0,
"res_mode": "none",
"res_position_p": 0,
"res_brightness_p": 0,
"res_pitch_p": 1,
"res_pitch_lin_p": 0,
"res_nonlin_p": 0,
"res_sustain_p": 0,
"res_pan_p": 0,
"res_mix_wet": 0.500000,
"res_mix_dry": 0.500000,
"body_position_x": 0.500000,
"body_position_y": 0.500000,
"body_nonlin": 0,
"body_tone": 0.500000,
"body_pitch": 0,
"body_sustain": 0.500000,
"body_pitch_mode": 1,
"body_mode": "none",
"body_position_x_p": 0,
"body_position_y_p": 0,
"body_nonlin_p": 0,
"body_tone_p": 0,
"body_pitch_p": 1,
"body_sustain_p": 0,
"body_mix_wet": 0.500000,
"body_mix_dry": 0.500000,
"output_tilt": 0,
"output_chorus": 0,
"output_limit": 1,
"patcher_matrix": {
"type": "signal",
"width": 17,
"height": 44,
"depth": 1,
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},
"key_scale": "12-equal",
"preset": "Kaivo default",
"sample_name": "Simon/Test Square",
"maker_name": "Madrona Labs",
"app_name": "Kaivo",
"app_version": 67587
}

That's good news. I'm on 64 bit as well. I ran several iterations today and according to my tests results seem to be quite stable if the initial setup is the same. I saved one project, recorded the audio until I got the glitch, saved and reopened. I'm at the 3rd iteration and right now each seems to have the same timing.

Let me know if you want me to upload the audio files and Ableton project.

PS: The above audio was generated with a square wave patch. I didn't check with more complex wavetables, possibly the added FM is related to the actual wavetable and causes "noise", but it will be hard to see, if the base wave is too complex, I guess.

I got what's happeing (but not why): step by step a one sample long oscillation is added to the signal. With each step it seems to double the amplitude. Eventually the oscillation is louder than the original signal and thus masking it. 44100 Hz is a bit too high, so you don't hear it, but the volume keeps increasing step by step.

here you can see it more clearly

My buffer size is at 512. Sampling is at 44100 Hz / 16 bit. Maybe that helps to reproduce it.

The default patch also went bad, but I confirmed again: the issue occurs also when the Resonator and Body are off.

To analyse what's happening I tried a sine(ish) wav and recorded several stages of degrading. Looks like some FM is added step by step (not really gradually, but audibly in smaller steps).

I used this wav in the patch.

Here is a recording of the patch gradually degrading.

The recorded steps are cut together as it seems that the steps are farther apart initially, but they get faster and the change at around 1:05 was actually recorded like this.

This is the patch:
{
"demo": 0,
"licensor": "",
"key_voices": 4,
"key_mod": 1,
"key_bend": 7,
"key_unison": 0,
"key_glide": 0.010000,
"seq_local": 1,
"seq_host": 0,
"seq_loop": 1,
"seq_trig": 0,
"seq_rate": 0.250000,
"seq_ratio": 1,
"seq_rate_p": 0,
"seq_steps": 16,
"seq_steps_p": 0,
"seq_offset": 0,
"seq_offset_p": 0,
"seq_range": 12,
"seq_quantize": 0,
"seq_glide": 0,
"seq_pw": 50,
"seq_value_delay": 0,
"seq_pulse_delay": 0,
"seq_value0": 0,
"seq_value1": 0,
"seq_value2": 0,
"seq_value3": 0,
"seq_value4": 0,
"seq_value5": 0,
"seq_value6": 0,
"seq_value7": 0,
"seq_value8": 0,
"seq_value9": 0,
"seq_value10": 0,
"seq_value11": 0,
"seq_value12": 0,
"seq_value13": 0,
"seq_value14": 0,
"seq_value15": 0,
"seq_pulse0": 0,
"seq_pulse1": 0,
"seq_pulse2": 0,
"seq_pulse3": 0,
"seq_pulse4": 0,
"seq_pulse5": 0,
"seq_pulse6": 0,
"seq_pulse7": 0,
"seq_pulse8": 0,
"seq_pulse9": 0,
"seq_pulse10": 0,
"seq_pulse11": 0,
"seq_pulse12": 0,
"seq_pulse13": 0,
"seq_pulse14": 0,
"seq_pulse15": 0,
"lfo_offset": 0,
"lfo_offset_x": 0,
"lfo_offset_y": 0,
"lfo_rate": 1,
"lfo_level": 1,
"lfo_quantize": 0,
"lfo_offset_p": 0,
"lfo_rate_p": 1,
"lfo_level_p": 0,
"lfo_function": "circle",
"noise_peaks": 1,
"noise_width": 0,
"noise_falloff": 0.500000,
"noise_offset": 0,
"noise_rate": 1,
"noise_level": 0,
"noise_auto": 0,
"noise_filter": 0,
"noise_offset_p": 0,
"noise_rate_p": 0,
"noise_level_p": 0,
"env1_attack": 0.001000,
"env1_decay": 1,
"env1_sustain": 1,
"env1_release": 0.500000,
"env1_level": 1,
"env1_xvel": 1,
"env1_attack_p": 0,
"env1_decay_p": 0,
"env1_release_p": 0,
"env2_repeat": 1,
"env2_delay": 0,
"env2_attack": 0.001000,
"env2_sustain": 0,
"env2_release": 0.010000,
"env2_xvel": 0,
"env2_xenv1": 1,
"env2_delay_p": 0,
"env2_attack_p": 0,
"env2_repeat_p": 1,
"env2_release_p": 0,
"gran_position_x": 0,
"gran_position_y": 0,
"gran_rate_noise": 0,
"gran_rate": 1,
"gran_density": 1.000000,
"gran_pitch": 0,
"gran_pitch_env": 0,
"gran_pan": 0,
"gran_follow": 1,
"gran_smooth": 1,
"gran_wrap": 1,
"gran_position_x_p": 0,
"gran_position_y_p": 0,
"gran_rate_p": 1,
"gran_density_p": 1,
"gran_pitch_p": 1,
"gran_pitch_lin_p": 0,
"gran_pitch_env_p": 0,
"gran_pan_p": 0,
"gate_level": 1,
"gate_mode": 0,
"gate_decay": 1,
"gate_leak": 0,
"gate_level_p": 0.500000,
"res_position": 0.500000,
"res_brightness": 0.500000,
"res_pitch": 440,
"res_nonlin": 0,
"res_sustain": 0.500000,
"res_pan": 0,
"res_mode": "none",
"res_position_p": 0,
"res_brightness_p": 0,
"res_pitch_p": 1,
"res_pitch_lin_p": 0,
"res_nonlin_p": 0,
"res_sustain_p": 0,
"res_pan_p": 0,
"res_mix_wet": 0.500000,
"res_mix_dry": 0.500000,
"body_position_x": 0.500000,
"body_position_y": 0.500000,
"body_nonlin": 0,
"body_tone": 0.500000,
"body_pitch": 0,
"body_sustain": 0.500000,
"body_pitch_mode": 1,
"body_mode": "none",
"body_position_x_p": 0,
"body_position_y_p": 0,
"body_nonlin_p": 0,
"body_tone_p": 0,
"body_pitch_p": 1,
"body_sustain_p": 0,
"body_mix_wet": 0.500000,
"body_mix_dry": 0.500000,
"output_tilt": 0,
"output_chorus": 0,
"output_limit": 1,
"patcher_matrix": {
"type": "signal",
"width": 17,
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"depth": 1,
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},
"key_scale": "12-equal",
"preset": "Kaivo default",
"sample_name": "Test Sine",
"maker_name": "Madrona Labs",
"app_name": "Kaivo",
"app_version": 67587
}

Did you use Ableton Live? First I thought, it's maybe related to the length of the notes and grains looping and that you have to play notes. But I also ran the default patch without playing anything and it went bad as well.

Do you also use an ASIO soundcard? I doubt that's it's the driver, but you never know.

If you have any idea what may cause the issue, or what it is, let us know. Maybe I can narrow down scenarios where it does and where it doesn't occur.

Oh, I'm not sure if it was mentioned: the voices degrade independently. Some still work while others already went completely silent.

Did you manage to reproduce the bug, Randy?

I checked with some of the factory patches, after Kaivo "went bad" - they have the same issue: no or barely any sound and the oscilloscope goes crazy:

celestial road trip
flange string

Switching between presets eventually resets Kaivo.

I didn't test if sound stops altogether, but the patches that I posted in the patch thread do have the issue with gradually degrading.

Is there a reason, why the dry and wet knob between body and output only has 10 discrete steps? The ones between resonator and body seem to be continuously. Even Shift doesn't do anything with these two.

Yeah, usually there is no noise when you switch, only after the instance got "degraded" and you also heard the noise when playing. It's almost like it's gathering some "electricity" which first causes increasing noise when playing and unloads when you switch. It also looks like the noise is gone after those bursts.

Enjoy your vacation, no need to rush into bug fixing.

Ok, it's not due to Audacity. Looks like playing the organ patch Kaivo degrades regardless of other software running.

I'd have to test other patches.

By the way: without limiter in Kaivo the burst of noise when you switch patches is more than +80 db. Seems liks the Synth gets quite angry :)

I recorded some audio and captured the output visualisation of the distortion. Some voices are getting worse, so playing the same note causes different levels of distortion.

zip with example files

As the bug seems to appear gradually, it's hard to reproduce for me quickly. It may be due to having Audacity (version 2.2.2) running at the same time. I'm testing if the issue does not appear when it's not running, now.

Kaivo 1.8.3 VST.64
Host: Ableton Live 10.0.5
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium (6.1.7691 with Servicepack 1)

Looks like it's the UI as when I automate both values the sliders of Live give me 10 times smoother values with two decimals (0.xx). Also the knobs in the UI move smother, when I adjust them via host automation.

Another thing I noticed: when you use host automation and set the value to 0 or 1 in the host and then double click on the knob in the UI, the host automation is not updated to 0.5. It is updated, if the value is any other than 0 or 1. This also applies for the other dry wet knobs, so it's probably not related. I just found it while testing.

I recorded it, so it's easier to see: video on google drive

With the other "Kaivo becomes noisy" issue that I mentioned with the patches that I posted - I'll try to reproduce this as well with some more detailled documentation.

Another one (same problem with the noise)...

Wav file

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"demo": 0,
"licensor": "",
"key_voices": 4,
"key_mod": 2,
"key_bend": 2,
"key_unison": 0,
"key_glide": 0,
"seq_local": 1,
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"seq_loop": 1,
"seq_trig": 1,
"seq_rate": 0.231000,
"seq_ratio": 1,
"seq_rate_p": 0,
"seq_steps": 16,
"seq_steps_p": 0,
"seq_offset": 0,
"seq_offset_p": 0,
"seq_range": 12,
"seq_quantize": 0,
"seq_glide": 0,
"seq_pw": 100,
"seq_value_delay": 8,
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"seq_value2": 0.860000,
"seq_value3": 0,
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"seq_value6": 0.120000,
"seq_value7": 0,
"seq_value8": 0,
"seq_value9": 0.510000,
"seq_value10": 0.930000,
"seq_value11": 0,
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"seq_value13": 0,
"seq_value14": 0.560000,
"seq_value15": 0.870000,
"seq_pulse0": 1,
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"seq_pulse3": 0,
"seq_pulse4": 0,
"seq_pulse5": 0,
"seq_pulse6": 0,
"seq_pulse7": 0,
"seq_pulse8": 1,
"seq_pulse9": 0,
"seq_pulse10": 0,
"seq_pulse11": 0,
"seq_pulse12": 0,
"seq_pulse13": 0,
"seq_pulse14": 0,
"seq_pulse15": 0,
"lfo_offset": 0.360000,
"lfo_offset_x": -0.040000,
"lfo_offset_y": -2.235174e-08,
"lfo_rate": 0.230000,
"lfo_level": 0.130000,
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"lfo_rate_p": 2.040000,
"lfo_level_p": 0.280000,
"lfo_function": "circle",
"noise_peaks": 1,
"noise_width": 1.900000,
"noise_falloff": 0.010000,
"noise_offset": 0.460000,
"noise_rate": 1.320000,
"noise_level": 0.580000,
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"noise_level_p": 0.800000,
"env1_attack": 0.001000,
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"body_pitch_mode": 2,
"body_mode": "large wooden box",
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"patcher_matrix": {
"type": "signal",
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},
"key_scale": "12-equal",
"preset": "Simon/Water Drone",
"sample_name": "Simon/Water (4 Track)",
"maker_name": "Simon Götz",
"app_name": "Kaivo",
"app_version": 67587
}

So I made a first patch, a pretty conservative one :)

The custom wav file can be downloaded from my google drive

I got one issue: after some time the patch starts to get noisy. Switching to another patch causes a major burst of noise. What's causing this?

{
"demo": 0,
"licensor": "",
"key_voices": 6,
"key_mod": 1,
"key_bend": 7,
"key_unison": 0,
"key_glide": 0.006000,
"seq_local": 1,
"seq_host": 0,
"seq_loop": 1,
"seq_trig": 0,
"seq_rate": 0.250000,
"seq_ratio": 1,
"seq_rate_p": 0,
"seq_steps": 16,
"seq_steps_p": 0,
"seq_offset": 0,
"seq_offset_p": 4,
"seq_range": 2,
"seq_quantize": 0,
"seq_glide": 1,
"seq_pw": 50,
"seq_value_delay": 7.500000,
"seq_pulse_delay": 0,
"seq_value0": 0.500000,
"seq_value1": 0.308658,
"seq_value2": 0.146447,
"seq_value3": 0.038060,
"seq_value4": 0,
"seq_value5": 0.038060,
"seq_value6": 0.146447,
"seq_value7": 0.308658,
"seq_value8": 0.500000,
"seq_value9": 0.691342,
"seq_value10": 0.853553,
"seq_value11": 0.961940,
"seq_value12": 1,
"seq_value13": 0.961940,
"seq_value14": 0.853553,
"seq_value15": 0.691342,
"seq_pulse0": 0,
"seq_pulse1": 0,
"seq_pulse2": 0,
"seq_pulse3": 0,
"seq_pulse4": 0,
"seq_pulse5": 0,
"seq_pulse6": 0,
"seq_pulse7": 0,
"seq_pulse8": 0,
"seq_pulse9": 0,
"seq_pulse10": 0,
"seq_pulse11": 0,
"seq_pulse12": 0,
"seq_pulse13": 0,
"seq_pulse14": 0,
"seq_pulse15": 0,
"lfo_offset": 0,
"lfo_offset_x": 0,
"lfo_offset_y": 0,
"lfo_rate": 0.080000,
"lfo_level": 0.100000,
"lfo_quantize": 0,
"lfo_offset_p": 0.080000,
"lfo_rate_p": 1,
"lfo_level_p": 0.960000,
"lfo_function": "knights",
"noise_peaks": 1,
"noise_width": 1.940000,
"noise_falloff": 0.010000,
"noise_offset": 0,
"noise_rate": 4.470001,
"noise_level": 0.160000,
"noise_auto": 1,
"noise_filter": 1,
"noise_offset_p": 0,
"noise_rate_p": 0,
"noise_level_p": 0,
"env1_attack": 0.056000,
"env1_decay": 2.560001,
"env1_sustain": 0.910000,
"env1_release": 0.390000,
"env1_level": 1,
"env1_xvel": 1,
"env1_attack_p": 0,
"env1_decay_p": 0,
"env1_release_p": 0,
"env2_repeat": 0,
"env2_delay": 0,
"env2_attack": 0.001000,
"env2_sustain": 0,
"env2_release": 5.610003,
"env2_xvel": 0,
"env2_xenv1": 1,
"env2_delay_p": 0,
"env2_attack_p": 0,
"env2_repeat_p": 1,
"env2_release_p": 0.520000,
"gran_position_x": 0.260000,
"gran_position_y": 1,
"gran_rate_noise": 0,
"gran_rate": 220,
"gran_density": 4.000001,
"gran_pitch": 1,
"gran_pitch_env": 0,
"gran_pan": 0.080000,
"gran_follow": 1,
"gran_smooth": 1,
"gran_wrap": 1,
"gran_position_x_p": -0.120000,
"gran_position_y_p": -0.520000,
"gran_rate_p": 1,
"gran_density_p": 1,
"gran_pitch_p": 1,
"gran_pitch_lin_p": 0,
"gran_pitch_env_p": 0,
"gran_pan_p": 0.140000,
"gate_level": 0,
"gate_mode": 0,
"gate_decay": 1,
"gate_leak": 0.310000,
"gate_level_p": 0.500000,
"res_position": 0.600000,
"res_brightness": 0.620000,
"res_pitch": 439.999847,
"res_nonlin": 0.200000,
"res_sustain": 0.070000,
"res_pan": 0,
"res_mode": "gut string",
"res_position_p": 0.140000,
"res_brightness_p": 0.060000,
"res_pitch_p": 1,
"res_pitch_lin_p": 0,
"res_nonlin_p": 0,
"res_sustain_p": 0.420000,
"res_pan_p": 0,
"res_mix_wet": 0.120000,
"res_mix_dry": 0.180000,
"body_position_x": 0.500000,
"body_position_y": 0.500000,
"body_nonlin": 0.140000,
"body_tone": 0.320000,
"body_pitch": 0.440000,
"body_sustain": 0.080000,
"body_pitch_mode": 1,
"body_mode": "large wooden box",
"body_position_x_p": 0.420000,
"body_position_y_p": -0.390000,
"body_nonlin_p": 0,
"body_tone_p": 0,
"body_pitch_p": 0.500000,
"body_sustain_p": 0.300000,
"body_mix_wet": 0.100000,
"body_mix_dry": 0.300000,
"output_tilt": 0,
"output_chorus": 0,
"output_limit": 1,
"patcher_matrix": {
"type": "signal",
"width": 17,
"height": 44,
"depth": 1,
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},
"key_scale": "12-equal",
"preset": "Simon/Unlikely Organ",
"sample_name": "Simon/Massive Repro Juno 3 Saws",
"maker_name": "Simon Götz",
"app_name": "Kaivo",
"app_version": 67587
}

Finally! :)
Had to create two accounts until I figured which email the licenses went to, but now I'll spend the rest of the holidays with designing weird sounds.

Thanks a lot Randy and I'm looking forward what you'll release in 2019...