ForumsSoftware ← Kaivo/Aalto voice stealing & legato?

Just got Kaivo and have been playing with the demo for Aalto, and I love them both! I am using them in Plogue Bidule on a PC running Win 7 64 bit, MIDI input mode set to MPE in the VSTs, controlled by a Linnstrument (running the latest beta firmware, also set to MPE mode). I just wanted to share some funny voice stealing behavior I noticed when set to a single voice on both synths.

I have managed to figure out that the unison mode--when the synths are set to a single voice or multiple voices-- is what enables legato behavior, which seems to work fine (wish this had been in the Kaivo manual, though!)

When running a single voice without unison enabled, when I hit a note, hold it, and then hit another note, the synths slide to the new note according to the glide time just fine. If I am still holding the original note and release the new note, as expected with no legato, the sound stops. However, if I release the original note prior to the new note, the new note stops playing. Strange!

Weirder still, when triggering the gate with channel pressure from Linnstrument rather than an envelope, if I hit two notes in series and remain holding both after the initial hit, releasing either note does not result in a legato behavior. Rather things behave as if the unison was off, and releasing either held note simply stops the sound. Further, most but not all of the time, when I finally release either the original note or the new note, there is a little blip of audio. It seems that the gate is being triggered somewhat by the release of either held note.

So the question is: is this a bug or a feature? The behavior with channel pressure is kinda driving me crazy, because most of the time that's what feels most natural and expressive playing the Linnstrument. Can anyone else duplicate any of this odd behavior?

PS--Related, but not necessarily integral to this discussion, I have a feature request: could we have a legato option separate from the unison feature?


I just tested this again with MPE off in Aalto and Kaivo, and at least the weird legato behavior disappears, and it seems that legato is always on in both synths, at least without MPE invoked. The behavior noted in my fourth paragraph above is still present with or without MPE turned on in Kaivo and Aalto.


I get similar behaviour using the Soundplane with MPE,
so I think its likely its aalto/kaivo rather than MPE implementation on the Linnstrument.

(its a bit different behaviour if I use rotate channels or not, but similarly 'confused' :) )

not a big issue for me, as I tend to use polyphonically, and also with T3D which doesn't have any legato behaviour (as far as i remember)

Sorry for the delay in chiming in about this, I missed the thread the first time around.

I think Scott identifies at least one bug, because releasing a note should never stop another note from playing, whether with channel pressure or notes-on. I guess this is obvious. So I have made a bug tracker issues out of it and will look at it as soon as I get get the Virta beta out.

All the MPE code is relatively new, and it's complicated, and there are not many people playing on it yet. So it's not surprising that there are issues with Linnstrument. Unfortunately I don't have one handy to test myself. First I'll see if I can make the problem happen with the Soundplane here, and if not, I may take you up on your kind offer to send me some MIDI data. Thanks for your patience.

I'll also make a note to make sure the legato / unison thing is described well in the docs.

I have no idea what legato would mean without unison on, in other words, what is a poly legato note triggering mode? And any playing you can do in unison mode with legato off, you can do with it on. This is why they were combined originally. That and my mania for making everything very simple and visible, and thereby not having a lot of controls. I am looking to add some "expert settings" in the future and can fit in some more options there.

No worries, Randy! And thanks Technobear for your reply. Now at least I know it's not just me :-)

What I was trying to communicate about the unison/legato thing was basically confined to running a single voice, which was where I was experiencing the most weirdness, as above. I totally understand what you are saying RE: legato being a pointless feature on a poly patch. WRT my second post, I should have said that the legato is always on for a single voice patch; sorry for any confusion there.

Anyhow, I think what I was initially experiencing with MPE enabled had more to do with the bug rather than any kind of oddness with the implementation of legato.

Also, I should add that I'm happy to do testing if you need someone with a Linnstrument handy, in addition to sending a transcript of the midi stream that Linnstrument is sending.

Thanks again, you two!